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Become a Top-Tier Member of the MSP Dojo

There is a very good chance that this type of practicing is new to you. If that's the case, you should most definitely watch this video with Jonathan Schofield and Robert Gillette walking through some of the most valuable tips and tricks to becoming a world class role-play partner.

Of course it's not mandatory, or even necessary, to become world-class. However, it does take two to tango. The better you are at your end of the practice, the more you value you'll get out of it yourself. I highly encourage even the most seasoned professionals to watch this video and take this advice to heart.

For those of you that don't have the timeline inclination to watch a 30 minute video, here is Artificial Intelligence's best attempt to transcribe:

Here's an AI transcription, if you'd rather read it.


0:00 Hey everybody.

0:01 For those of you that are pretty new to the role play improv kind of world, I thought we'd do a little intro.

0:08 This is going to be a very casual discussion with Jonathan Schofield who you may or may not know has a degree in improv, right, something like that, Nice or see that's some good yes ending right there.

0:22 I don't know.

0:25 He'll talk, he'll talk more about that.

0:26 But he was one of the first people I told about this idea of the MSP Dojo and right away he loved it.

0:32 And he's been a stable part of our community since the beginning.

0:36 And so I've been hearing from certain members as they join two things.

0:41 One, they're uncomfortable to jump in because they don't, they've never done this and they don't want to be a bad role play partner.

0:48 But I've also heard from some members that some of you coming in aren't very good at this and you are a bad role play partner.

0:54 So today we're going to just go through some general discussion topics on stuff, kind of like bigs, do's and don'ts.

0:59 A couple of tips.

1:00 This is by no means comprehensive.

1:02 I just couldn't find a good video to link that I thought summed up the idea well enough.

1:07 So we're going to make our own real quick.

1:09 So, Jonathan, without further ado, what are some of the ideas that now that you've been in the Dojo for a while, you've seen a lot of people role play, some stuff that you want to bring to the table, say like you're new to this, please do, don't stop, start, change, that kind of a thing.

1:26 Yeah.

1:27 So I've curated a little bit of a list of things that I think might be helpful for, for folks to think about.

1:33 But first of all, if you are you know, watching this video because you have yet to attend your first or you've only done your first one and you feel outside of your comfort zone and or maybe you're just like how can I get more value out of this Dojo experience?

1:50 Let me just encourage you say that muscles don't get built by doing what is comfortable.

1:58 So if you are feeling some level of discomfort, that is to be expected.

2:05 And in fact, that is actually a good thing.

2:09 Congratulations, you're doing it right.

2:11 Yes, Congratulations, You're doing it right.

2:13 So don't let that just the the worst thing that could happen right now is like, oh, that was, I don't know about that.

2:18 The worst thing you could do is to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that did not feel good.

2:24 So I'm a stop.

2:25 That'd be like, I'm going to train for a marathon.

2:28 You run your first quarter mile, you're like running sucks.

2:32 Yeah, your first quarter mile will, and that's OK, that's OK.

2:36 But I'm here to tell you and Robert would echo this, that you're right where you should be.

2:39 So what Robert and I will share with you now is hopefully some stuff that will help set you to be successful.

2:49 And the first tip, and I don't know how you want to do this, maybe we just go back one if you want from me.

2:53 Yeah, we'll figure it out.

2:53 Let's just go.

2:54 That's probably good because that's a lot of lot of words for me to say and people will get bored of me.

3:00 The first tip I'll give you is maybe very simple, maybe very obvious.

3:04 Show up to your webcam 5 minutes early.

3:09 Now the the stream will typically not even start until the very top of the hour.

3:16 So it's not like you're going to be on the call talking with other people.

3:20 It'll just be you, your webcam and whatever you have around you.

3:25 But I think it's really important to, and I would say the same thing with any sales call you're about to get on.

3:29 If you can give yourself at least 5 minutes hydrate, you know, focus on calming your mind and your breathing and get into a mind frame of acceptance.

3:41 So whatever is about to occur, I accept it.

3:45 And none of it could be possibly negative or bad because you're basically centering yourself and allowing yourself to be ready for that.

3:53 So 5 minutes early, at least.

3:55 More if you can grab a cup of tea.

3:57 I drink a lot of sparkling water on these things.

3:59 Whatever works for you.

4:00 But that's my that's my first one, that's an easy one.

4:04 I'm going to jump in and actually add to that because that's a really good I actually even do that myself and I'm a big fan of, I don't know who it was.

4:11 It was, let's pretend it was Einstein, 'cause that's good for the story.

4:15 But the way he used to solve problems was he would do something called submitting it to his subconscious.

4:20 And it's a thing that like, I believe fully in.

4:23 I do it all the time.

4:25 So when I come across a big confusing problem that doesn't have a right or a wrong answer, sometimes, like these role play experiments, it's a bad idea to watch the video right before it starts.

4:35 I like to watch the video and look and read through the scenario, read through the rules like a a day or two before and then I just go look.

4:44 I'm not going to try and solve this right now.

4:46 I'm going to submit it to my subconscious and I'm going to let it Stew in the background.

4:50 I'm going to let the many parts of my lizard brain just mill this over.

4:54 And then often times when I come back to it, I don't necessarily know exactly what I'm going to say, but I'm so much better prepared because I've been thinking about it in the background for a couple days.

5:06 And so I I sent out the e-mail on Thursdays, Thursday morning, that's Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday for you to watch the video and and submit it to your subconscious.

5:18 Like, there's no reason why you should come in and have either just watch the video or not watch the video.

5:24 Because a huge part of what we're doing is building great knowledge base, these big kind of buckets of tools that you can access over time.

5:34 We're going to practice something this week.

5:36 It may not come up for six months.

5:39 So you're already going to be submitting these things to your subconscious to Stew.

5:43 Let's make that a part of the intentional practice.

5:46 So we're not just flippy flopping around, just seeing what we can come up with.

5:49 Let it, let it Stew for a little bit before you bring it to the role play, what else you got.

5:55 So you gave me the opportunity to showcase my number two when you said I've got a degree in improv.

6:03 My #2 is any life is improvised, by the way.

6:08 You know, if you're like, oh, I don't do improv.

6:10 It's like if you are a flesh and blood human being, you don't have the next breath planned out that you know the next thing.

6:17 You know, the way you move your hair behind your ear or how you're going to phrase every word you're going to say today, life is not planned.

6:26 We do our best to plan life, but it is not, it is all improvised.

6:31 So if you feel like intimidated by this idea of improvisation, let me just release you of that.

6:37 You are already doing improvisation every moment of every day of your life.

6:42 The temptation when you come into a role-playing scenario is to impose some kind of thing, some kind of vibe on to the role play like, oh, we're doing a role play.

6:53 So I got my role play voice and I got my role play motions, and it's this form and function that exists exclusively in the role play which defeats the entire purpose of the role play.

7:03 We're trying to facsimilate reality by improvising, so my #2 is to always say yes.

7:12 And any improviser who's trying to help you be more spontaneous is going to tell you, accept the suggestions given to you.

7:22 So it might feel like, you know this an example, you know in, in a drill scenario, the buyer is the CFO of a payroll company.

7:33 Well, I don't know crap about payroll and I've never been a financial advisor of any kind.

7:38 I know IT and I do sales like, yeah, OK.

7:41 But you're going to accept that suggestion and to the best of your ability, you're going to say, actually, yes, I am a professional in the HR industry and I know financial services really, really well.

7:52 And you're going to pretend just like you did when you were a kid, pretending to be a farmer, pretending to be a restaurant owner, a spaceman, whatever the heck it was.

8:03 We're trying to kind of that's what we're doing.

8:04 Say yes, accept it.

8:06 Yes.

8:07 And I think the official improv is, you know, the rule is yes, and yes and and I believe so much in this yes and concept.

8:15 It's one of my family values for my 5 year old and my 7 year old.

8:18 It's my way of telling them to play nicely together.

8:21 And by the way, you do this with a 5 year old as well, they'll run up to you and be like look at this picture I drew And you look at it and it's just a bunch of lines on a page like and just like you're like this is what the pink crayon, it makes no logical sense.

8:33 You go, Oh my God, I love it.

8:35 Is this a horse?

8:36 You know?

8:36 And they're like, no, it's a mountain.

8:38 And you're like, I see it now, but you're holding it upside down.

8:41 And you're like, I am holding it upside down.

8:44 You know how to do this Because we do this all the time.

8:47 You do this with a prospect already when you're sitting there and they go, so your server went down last week and they go, no, it didn't.

8:53 You're like, oh, wow, I must be confused.

8:54 What did happen?

8:55 You do this all the time, naturally.

8:57 It's how we reconcile the information we receive and present.

9:01 And we like the way that we operate in the world with other people.

9:05 All we're asking you to do is make it always a positive version of that.

9:09 And the reason for that is it keeps the role play moving.

9:12 It makes it, keeps it from getting weird.

9:14 So someone says to you, so that ERP system you're working with, is it, you know, is it this one or this one?

9:20 And you go, well, that's not what the scenario says.

9:23 You're not.

9:23 Yes, Anding, like, let's just roll.

9:25 Let's just find a way to put this together like tennis, you know, you just, we want the ball to keep moving back and forth.

9:31 What's important is not exactly the scenario.

9:35 What's important is not the the details.

9:38 If the last guy talked about nonprofits, you don't have to talk about nonprofits unless it's part of the scenario.

9:44 And even if someone gets it wrong, just go with it.

9:47 Because in real life, your prospects are going to throw crazy things at you that you have to learn how to roll with.

9:55 I remember I was in a role play early on with a guy who had literally never sold MSP services and he goes, you know, I really, really like this but I need it to come with purple unicorns And I went, OK, these purple unicorns.

10:06 So they have to be the tall ones, the little ones like we just I you just have to find a way to yes and your way through for that 4 minutes, man.

10:14 And there's a value in that instead of just trying to be whatever.

10:19 And I'm actually going to tie to that.

10:20 The second one is something that I hear all the time is just don't be immovable.

10:25 Like I was so excited.

10:26 I've been doing this since February.

10:28 It's now I'm recording this in November and I had my first experience.

10:32 I was in the role play today.

10:33 You were there Jonathan, with a guy and about 3 minutes in he goes, damn, you got me and like end of role play, you know we don't have to do 2 more like another minute of awkwardness to try and just keep it going.

10:45 Like I he gave an objection.

10:48 I handled the objection.

10:49 I set it up in such a way that gave him the opportunity to say yes or end everything and he's like no, I would say yes, I would be a reasonable person.

10:57 Like you don't have to be difficult for the sake of being difficult.

10:59 Try and be realistic.

11:01 Don't be immovable if they're doing well, let them do well, You know that's that's the that maybe the next thing.

11:07 What else you got, Jonathan, you know I want to tie two of them together actually because as I'm looking at at my #3, there's not necessarily a hierarchy or order to the way I have these randomly put out there.

11:20 But my my #3 and my number six, I'm going to put together my #3 is put your phone in the other room.

11:29 I'm going to, I'm going to expand on that in a second.

11:32 My number six is to give more than you take and I'll explain why those are connected.

11:39 Put your phone in the other room.

11:40 Just like if you were on a sales call and the prospect saw you checking Facebook or you're clearly looking at another screen answering an e-mail, that would be detrimental to the experience that your sales prospector customer has.

11:57 If hopefully you're not doing that, if you are doing that, stop first lesson first.

12:03 Yeah, first, first lesson, don't be doing that.

12:06 But same thing with this role.

12:07 In these role play scenarios, you know, you got to take your role seriously and give it the focus and attention that you would want in a real world sales scenario because you're doing yourself a disservice and you're losing out on tons of value.

12:22 Which is why it ties into my number six give more than you take and I wrote some, some jotted some notes down underneath it.

12:28 It's like anything else in life you're going to get out of out of something like what you put into it, right?

12:35 If your expectation is to roll into the Dojo and go through the motions and listening in to everybody else, will you get some level of value out of it?

12:44 Absolutely.

12:46 But if you are highly focused and engaged, willing to jump in, participate, collaborate, be enthusiastic, constructive and collaborative, and going with that mindset and spirit that you're there to help everyone around you, you're what you'll find is that you're going to walk away with more value than you ever gave because you were so actively participating in everyone else's experience, and you're not just passively waiting for yourself to get benefit out of it.

13:15 So by the way, that's also a great mindset to go into any sales scenario that you're there to give more than you would take.

13:22 So it really applies so far to this day, I've only had one person tell me they didn't get value out of their membership after being in it for three months.

13:34 And that one person very specifically told me he does not bring his silver bullets to the to the role play like he's bringing his B game because he thinks his A game is so star spangled awesome that he wouldn't want to share it with the rest of the people in the room.

13:52 And what's what I know about him six months later after checking on him is he is still not hitting his sales goals and I'm guessing it's because his prospects won't tell him when he sucks.

14:03 We will tell you with a gentle hug and let you know when what you do is not working.

14:08 You'll see it and hear it in the room and you'll immediately know, sometimes before you even get to the feedback.

14:15 Oh, that isn't as good as I thought it was.

14:18 Bring your A game to the to the room.

14:20 I promise you, you're not giving away trade secrets.

14:24 The only thing you're doing is testing your unique lottery ticket to see if it's a winner.

14:30 And that's what I would do is don't hold back.

14:33 Don't think you've got a secret weapon.

14:35 Bring it to the Dojo and it's either going to do one of two things, it's going to work and you're going to feel awesome.

14:41 And by the way, no one can steal it because that's your winning lottery ticket.

14:45 They're not going to be able to do what you can do or you're going to find out it's not quite as good as you think it is, and you're going to get the opportunity to refine it and make it something better so that it does sound like you and it is a winning lottery ticket.

14:57 Yeah, I have a thought on that.

15:00 In speaking to the mindset of Silver Bullets, first of all, if you're participating in the Dojo, hopefully you're acknowledging that you have potential for growth and you realize that there's room in your professional world as a sales professional to be better, right?

15:20 If you don't come in with that humble mindset that I ain't got this all figured out, why are you here?

15:25 Maybe you should be running your own Dojo.

15:27 If you're that much of A ****** go give Gary Pico a run for his money, because you got it all figured out.

15:32 Yeah, for the rest of us, myself and Robert included, we are perpetually students of the craft and we will be the ones to tell you that.

15:43 And because he and I are very active in these role plays every week, we we mess it up, you know, and we've been doing this a long time throughout the course of our careers and we don't have those silver bullets.

15:56 If your if your fear is that you're going to get on here and share something that a potential competitor will use against you, let me just reassure you that there's nothing you'll learn here that that is not already been done six ways from Sunday across the multitude of industries for decades and years.

16:16 Sales is not a new thing and being good at sales it's not like being a good human being has changed.

16:23 Like how you do that and being a good sales person is no different, like the fundamentals and being good at what you do.

16:31 There's nothing that's not a secret, and anyone who thinks they're sitting on some, you know, silver bullet is misguided in my opinion.

16:39 So anyways, that's a soapbox but we'll we'll hop on it.

16:43 Well that's going to go in great with my next thing which is, and this is really silly, but show up.

16:48 You paid for this.

16:50 You paid for this or or the community that you've joined has paid for it for you to be here.

16:56 This is quite literally a gym.

17:00 I I called it the Dojo for a very specific reason.

17:03 The value is showing up.

17:06 If you're having a hard time making room for it on Wednesday, this is what I suggest.

17:12 Go as far out in your calendar as you need to to have every to have a Wednesday clear.

17:18 Create a one hour session.

17:20 One hour and 5 minutes.

17:22 You know.

17:22 If you're going to be here early like Jonathan suggests, you should create it.

17:25 Create a heck, make it 15 minutes before so you can grab that coffee and then come and sit down.

17:30 Make it a recurring calendar invite and invite your executive assistant to it as well, or whoever it is, your boss, whoever it is that holds you accountable.

17:41 Heck, if it's the community, if you've got a sales coach or a community you're a part of, invite that person to it too so they can hold you accountable.

17:48 But make it a recurring calendar invite and just stop scheduling stuff on top of it.

17:53 You are a fully grown adult.

17:55 You know you need to do this.

17:57 You have every opportunity.

17:58 I promise you your schedule, your schedule is more full than anyone that wants to make you move this appointment.

18:04 Just show up to it.

18:06 You do not lose weight by joining 24 Hour Fitness and looking at the the badge.

18:11 OK, You have to go and you have to put in the work and if there was an easier way I would bottle and sell that.

18:17 But this is what you have available.

18:19 Please show up to the Dojo.

18:22 OK, next, last thought on that before we go to the next you.

18:26 You show me your behaviors and the choices you make, and I will show you where your priorities lie.

18:35 For every for every for.

18:38 Let's let's to use the health and Wellness analogy for just a slice of a second.

18:43 For every person that sits on the couch eating Donuts, watching Netflix, overweight and unhappy with their body, their their quality of life and their health, you ask you know a hundred of those people if they should make a disciplined effort to be better.

19:04 90 to 100% of them will say I probably should.

19:09 But the ones who actually get better, the ones who actually improve their quality of life and move the needle towards what they believe they should, are the ones that choose to take control of the one thing they have control over.

19:21 It's their behavior and it doesn't have to be earth shattering.

19:25 We're not saying do a role play every day for four hours a day.

19:29 We're saying once a week commit to showing up and throwing everything you've got into this.

19:34 And I promise you the consistency of that behavior will is where you will reap the dividends.

19:40 So I echo what Robert said and you know, that's your kick in the pants for the day.

19:44 So enjoy it.

19:46 I totally agree.

19:47 You you do it.

19:48 Sold.

19:49 Thank you, choir.

19:50 I appreciate that.

19:52 What else you got?

19:55 I I don't have a whole lot more that I wrote down.

19:57 Here's an here's the one that's easy.

19:59 That's been really helpful for me.

20:01 Bring a notebook and a pen.

20:04 I'm a very tactile learner and so and I do this on sales calls too, by the way, even though I've got my CRM and I'm going to put all my notes in after the call, I don't type while I'm on a meeting.

20:15 I like to have a pen in my hand.

20:17 And regardless of whether you're the buyer, observer or the seller, there's value in you having a notebook.

20:24 First of all, if you are the the buyer, you are the one who's kind of concocting the world initially of the of the drill and we dance to your drums, so to speak.

20:35 Yep, you kind of set the pace of the rhythm and then the world builds itself around what you kind of set in motion.

20:41 So while you're kind of prepping for your turn, you might be thinking of one or two things that you might incorporate when it's your turn to step into that role as buyer.

20:52 And you might write down a keyword or two or a concept or a phrase that helps anchor you to that role as the buyer.

21:00 And you might do a couple different things because in an ideal drill session, you're going to get this up on its feet maybe two or three times.

21:09 So you might want to have a few options to pull from the belt.

21:13 So that's one, one value to having a notebook jotting down a few things.

21:17 By the way, you could do this in advance as you're watching the drill on Thursday.

21:22 You could write some of those things down in preparation, and you don't have to.

21:27 You don't have to make it up.

21:28 Look back in your own career.

21:29 Has this ever happened to me before?

21:32 Can I think of a client or a prospect that might say something like this?

21:35 Who are they?

21:36 What are they like?

21:36 Bring that character with you?

21:38 Yep.

21:39 And.

21:39 And just as simple as writing down something to remind you of that scenario, you can quickly glance it.

21:45 Maybe your mind wanders in the role play for a fraction of a section.

21:49 Second, you glance down, you're right back where you were.

21:52 Now, for the seller, it's even more critical, especially if you're a tactical learner like me.

21:57 I'm actively listening and I'm physically with listening.

22:00 So keywords that I hear, I'm jotting down.

22:03 If they share any critical information that I'm going to be able to use in the role play, I'm jotting it down.

22:09 You got to be pretty good at your shorthand.

22:10 So you know you're not like pausing the role play to like, all right, I'm just going to write this this paragraph out, but like just shorthand that you can reference quickly and pull back in the scenario you're going to find.

22:20 It's really helpful.

22:21 I find it helpful anyways.

22:23 And finally, if you're the observer, it might be most critical for you of all people to have your notebook handy because what your your role as the observer is to be looking for what's really working in your opinion in this scenario, in this particular drill, this particular role play, what's really working well and and then additionally where's their opportunity to improve.

22:46 And even though it's usually a four to six minute little role play, you might think you will remember all of that.

22:52 There might be a juicy nugget they like.

22:54 I would definitely want to make sure that I touch on that jot down a ward or two whatever you need.

22:59 So have a notebook, candy, a pen.

23:01 That's that's a suggestion that's been very helpful to me.

23:04 And even honestly, if you, even if you don't feel like you need it for the role play, let's just practice good sales craft in general.

23:10 I don't personally know of a high performing makes more money than the CEO sales person that doesn't take notes.

23:19 I just don't know one.

23:20 And if they exist, let that photographic memory serve you.

23:24 But even at the height of my career, when I was closing more money than I expected, I was still writing down keywords so that I could reference them later.

23:36 Especially in the sales.

23:38 The sales we do, which often has multiple people across multiple meetings, to be able to take those specific words from one meeting to the next.

23:46 Somehow you do that without keeping notes.

23:48 So yet another good reason to practice the things you actually need, which is the whole point of the Dojo anyways.

23:56 A couple things that I just want to throw out.

23:59 I can't tell you how.

24:00 How frustrating it is and boring for the people you're with, where you're like, well, I don't this is the scenario is about giving testimonials and I don't, I don't.

24:11 I don't have a problem giving those away.

24:13 Or yeah, we don't do we don't do ERP migrations so this doesn't apply to me.

24:18 Who cares?

24:20 OK, just roll with it.

24:22 There is value in stretching your the things that you consider your zone of comfort, like and just getting outside of that.

24:31 So what if you've never sold?

24:32 Who cares?

24:32 Now's a great time to try.

24:34 I promise you there is value to stretching this part of your hard concrete wall you don't like to go past.

24:42 It serves you in other areas.

24:44 There's value in just doing something different.

24:48 And it's like, if you don't believe me, just do this tonight.

24:53 Go brush your teeth with your non dominant hand.

24:57 I've been brushing my teeth for 40 years.

24:59 OK, made the switch to electric maybe 10 years ago.

25:02 The other day I brushed I'm left-handed.

25:04 I brushed my teeth with my right hand, felt like I'd been doing it for the first time.

25:08 Like there is a sales version of that every time you step into the Dojo.

25:14 Just roll with it.

25:15 I don't care if it's not the way you run your sales process, just go with the scenario.

25:20 It's good for you.

25:21 Yep.

25:22 That's like saying I don't run triathlons, so I don't need to get on the treadmill and run a mile, OK, You don't have to be a you don't have to be a triathlete to get benefit out of cardio.

25:34 Yeah, I just there's it's there's a there's a ton of different reasons to just stretch another one that I see sometimes it doesn't happen very often.

25:43 But it's called staying within the circle of expectations.

25:47 Like try not to be too clever.

25:49 You don't have to be.

25:51 You don't have to rock anyone's world with an objection no one's ever heard before, or a sales tactic that is, that is just, like gonna gonna change the face of sales forever.

26:00 Like, you don't need to be spectacular.

26:05 What you need to do is is practice intentionally, what you would really do in a sales meeting as a seller, and what you really expect to experience as a buyer.

26:16 I say this like I hear hear some people like it's it's just one of those things that I say you'll hear me when when you're new to this or if I do it in person with some of these in person exercises is you show us how your prospects treat you when you're the buyer.

26:32 So if you're a jerk we know that's how people think of you.

26:37 So I want you to be try not to be clever.

26:40 Just be realistic.

26:41 Be stick within reality in the in that circle of expectations while you're going through it.

26:46 Do you have anything else?

26:47 Because I have a couple more terms that I just want to go through that are like improv terms.

26:51 I only had one, and we kind of touched on it when we said say yes, but my number four is play is play.

27:02 You want to come with a mindset that this is a safe place to experiment and to try and to fail.

27:10 If there's something you ever wondered how a prospect would respond to, but you've been gun shy to do it, this is the place to do it.

27:18 And we'll tell you if it worked or not and you'll feel the work or not, right?

27:23 And there's it's a judgment free place where you get to like you can't really messed it up, right.

27:29 That's the point of this is to practice here and and not only will you be able to experiment, try and fail all that, but you get more gratification out of it when you go.

27:38 And it's like just like you're about to go into a sport, You know any, any person who's actually active in like a Taekwondo Dojo, right, will tell you that when they go in with that play mindset and their body is physically engaged.

27:52 It's fun.

27:53 Once you get to a place where you enjoy it, then this whole other light bulb goes off in your experience and you just look forward to it.

28:03 And that's what we want for you, Clay.

28:06 Absolutely.

28:08 OK.

28:08 Just to wrap some things up, there's a couple terms that I don't know like these are just there's two, two of them specifically that come up like it's lingo for the improv people, but one of them is called hedging and and it's, it came up today, it's what I call the congressional witness, you know.

28:24 So it's like if the if the if the seller says so, you know tell me a little bit about, you know or the buyer says tell me a little bit more about your, you know, you know your company and what you do and you say something like, oh what an excellent question.

28:36 Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak about what makes my company great and how we're set apart from other.

28:42 Just answer the question like if you have to stop and think about it for a minute, especially as the seller, don't waste a bunch of time saying words that don't matter.

28:52 Like don't hedge as a buffering technique.

28:55 If you don't know what to say, stop and think about it for a minute and and realistically, you should probably do that in your sales meetings, not just in the practice.

29:03 The second one is wimping out or refusing to give information.

29:07 This one is more of the buyer, what a buyer does to be a bad role player.

29:12 But it's like, so you know, how long have you been dealing with this issue?

29:15 Oh a while.

29:17 Or how does the rest of your staff feel about these IT problems?

29:20 I don't know, like don't like, you have to be like if you want to be a good role play partner, feel free to.

29:28 You have to be comfortable with making up information or pulling it from past experiences.

29:33 This is a bit of a dance.

29:35 You know, in real life if someone answered that way in a sales meeting you'd be like did I offend you?

29:41 But you know so don't act that way in the role play.

29:44 This is really just we've what we've been saying this whole time is is mostly just about being an open minded, thoughtful, can I treat other people the way you want to be treated?

29:54 Role play partner.

29:55 It shouldn't be that complicated, but because this is new and a little bit scary, we tend to act different than we normally would.

30:02 You don't need to do that.

30:03 This is, I hate to use phrases like safe place because it's very snowflakey, but it really is like I can't think of another place where you can come do these things and have it cost you nothing.

30:17 Like you're not going to lose a client.

30:19 The worst that could happen is you're a little embarrassed and if anyone is ever actually mean to you or a jerk, let me know.

30:27 I'll kick him out of the Dojo because that's not who we are.

30:29 So any closing thoughts?

30:31 Jonathan, we're glad you're here.

30:34 If you made it through this video, you're a trooper.

30:36 I think that you're about to start a journey that is going to be very impactful for you, and we look forward to seeing you around.

30:45 All right, take care.

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